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Issue: 1977 August - Vol 3 Num 15

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was to a small city for a recreation room. This
particular competitor has forced us onto some
rentals which we don't particularly like to do but in
order not to lose the location, we did do that. We
ended up renting a phonograph. They offered it for
20 dollars, even went down to 15. But we rented it
for 30. So we're getting more money than what
they offered it to them for. But by the same token,
we were getting 50 or 60 before. This is a very bad
situation with us right now, in this particular area,
and I don't know how long this company will be
around, but for whatever period of time, it's going
to be bad. It's my opinion that they have set us
back about 25 or 30 years.
PLAY METER: That bad, huh?
LAWSON: Yes, it's terrible, because at this
particular time we were meaning to talk about
increasing prices and more commissions and that
kind of thing. And then we have to contend with
this.
PLAY METER: Have you lost any locations?
LAWSON: Yes, we have lost some of the locations
because some of the locations where they put
them in, we felt just weren't profitable enough to
us. If it's not profitable, then we're not going to
keep it.
PLAY METER: Do you charge a minimum fee for a
location?
LAWSON:
Yes, in some locations we do,
particularly on our music.
PLA Y METER: How does that work?
LAWSON: We can't operate anything for less than
ten dollars a week. So any phonograph we have
starts on a minimum of ten dollars and, depending
upon the age of the equipment, goes up. If a
phonograph has 12 dollars in it, we take the first
ten, that's what it amounts to. And they get two.
If it has just eight or nine in it, we just take the
eight or nine. We don't ask them to make up the
difference.
PLAY METER: You mentioned earlier a sales tax.
The sales tax imposed on you as the operator or
vendor of equipment.
LAWSON: Well, there is a sales tax. We have to
pay a four percent sales tax on cigarettes. Then we
have to pay a sales tax on parts and service.
PLAY METER:
When you have something
repaired at your distributors?
LAWSON: That's right. On the parts and service
we buy, we have to pay a sales tax. We do not pay a
sales tax on the machines themselves because we
are paying a sales tax on the money that is derived
from those machines.
PLAY METER:
Because of the location?
LAWSON: Right. In fact, in the early sixties, this
is why our state association was formed, to combat
this sales tax. They were going to put the sales tax
on the gross amount of the machine. Well, through
a lot of hard work and litigation and expense and so
forth, we convinced them that that would be double
taxation. They were very happy with the way we
were collecting the tax and returning it for them.
And they realized it would almost be a physical
impossibility for them to collect from all the mom
and pop operations we do business with. They had
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to rely upon someone to do it. and we pointed out all
t hese things to them. And because of this, we were
able to convince them not to put the tax on the gross.
amount.
PLAY METER: And it was due mostly to the
efforts of whom?
LAWSON: The state association. There is no
question about it in my mind . If it hadn't been for
the association, we would have a four percent sales
tax on the gross amount today. That is a fact. If it
had not been for the Florida association , we might
not be operating coin-operated pool tables in
licensed beverage places. We had a beverage
director in the state who said that a pool table was a
gambling device. Well, hell, a Coca-Cola bottle can
be a gambling device. A pool table is not so
designed to be a gambling device. But we came
within a hair of having to move all the pool tables
out of the licensed beverage places. The association
is what saved that. We agreed with the beverage
department that we would help police our area, and
this is what we have done.
PLAY METER: You're very fortunate to have such
an active and progressive state association.
LAWSON: Yes, we are, and we know that. And I
am a firm believer in associations.
PLAY METER: No doubt about it. Too bad more
operators in America don't think the way you do.
LAWSON: Too bad that more of them here in
Florida don't agree with us. One of the benefits is
the workman's compensation through the associa-
tion. We've saved about 30 percent this year, just
by having been in the association.
PLAY METER: Okay, now, what sort of licenses
do you have to buy for the machines?
LAWSON: We have what we call a master license.
It's a $187.50, plus $1.80 per machine, after the first
35 machines in the county.
PLAY METER: State and county tax or license?
LAWSON: Right. Well, it's called a license. We
buy it from each county seat. We give them a list or
number of the machines we have in theil' county. In
fact, some of them require a list of the locations and
their addresses. Some of them only require a
number. And they give us something like a large
postage stamp that we stick on the machine. Now,
in the counties where you have less than 35 pieces,
you buy a $7.50 stamp per machine. I think if you
figure $187.50 and $1.80 times 35, it will come to the
same figure as 35 times $7.50.
PLAY METER: Yes, it works out pretty close.
LAWSON: Yes, so this is how we arrived at that.
PLAY METER: Well, that sounds pretty fair and
equitable.
LAWSON: Well, we think so.
PLAY METER:
How did you manage it?
LAWSON: Actually, it was our local tax collector
who I have been talking with for a number of years.
I have always felt that in our industry we have been
taxed too heavily. Our licenses were too great, I
should say. Not only that, we also have a personal
property tax that we must pay on each piece of
equipment. And that's based on 100 percent
evaluation. They take 80 percent the first year and
go down in most counties to 40 percent and hold at
that. They don't ever go below 40 percent.
August, 1977, PLA Y METER
PLAY METER: No matter what the book value is?
LAWSON: That's right. No matter what the book
value is. So this is something within itself that we
must do. Anyway, getting back to how we got the
license fee that time, I talked with the tax collector.
He wasn't actually the tax collector at the time- he
was just working in the office. But he was going to
run for the job because the tax collector was
retiring. He had been friendly with me, and he too
felt that we were being over-taxed, that our
licenses were not just, according to the licenses that
were being sold in other industries.
So he
happened to be on a committee that looked over
licenses throughout the state, and he asked me if
our association would back him in this move, and I
said we certainly would. What we really wanted to
do was get like a $500 or $1000 license for a county,
and this would discourage one man from buying a
phonograph or whatever. But they came back and
said no they couldn't do that, that it would be an
infringment on their rights of some kind. So then
we settled with the formula that we have, and we
are very happy with it because it is quite a saving
for those of us in the business because anytime you
operate anything over 35 pieces in any county, you,
of course, are saving money. So this is how this
came about. I ought to add that we also have city
licenses to pay. Each municipality has on the books
a license ranging anywhere from $5 to $35 per
machine .
PLA Y METER: And that still exists?
LAWSON: Well, it's still on the books. Four years
ago, though, the Florida legislature passed a bill
stating that no municipality could charge a company
a license unless they had an office in that city. Well,
we don't have an office in any city. We happen to be
located in the county. So I immediately went to my
attorney in Winter Haven and asked how he
interpreted the law, and he said, "Well, the way I
read it, we can't charge you a license. You're
buying a state and county license that permits you
to operate in the city." Well, this was good enough
for me. So I went to 23 different municipalities, and
all but two refunded the money that they had
charged me. Of those two, I took one of them to
court. I won in the lower court but lost in the
appeal.
PLAY METER: Why was that?
LAWSON: I don't know. It was something about
the way they interpreted the law. My attorney said
that the way t he law was written, it didn't have
enough teeth. He didn't feel it was worthwhile for
us to take it to the Supreme Court. But since that
time, these other municipalities that I deal with, I
have not been buying city licenses there. Now,
those cities that bill us for licenses, in the
meantime- we take in a lot of other cities, a lot of
other territories- if they have a license we don't
argue with them. We just pay it because what we
want to do in time through our association is to get
this municipality license thing equalized. In Plant
City, for instance, where I operate- it's about 20
miles east of Tampa- well, last year I paid over
$700. Seven hundred dollars just to operate in that
one city! Now this is a city of about 10,000 people.
PLA Y METER, August, 1977
PLAY METER: That's outrageous.
LAWSON: You bet it is. This is what I'm t.alking
about. Well, their licenses are $25 per machine.
This is what I think is so unfair, I do not believe that
one of the chain stores paid that kind of license. So
I think we need to have a check-balance system
here, try to get this thing equalized a little bit and
let everybody share part of the burden.
PLAY METER: What is the best way of going
about that?
LAWSON: Well, again, we have always found that
the best way of going about that is through our
state association. To get these laws passed, of
course, requires a lot of legwork. It takes a lot of
friendship, a lot of money, and a lot of time. We
have found that if you get enough people involved,
you can go to the politicians with a stack of letters
or a list of names or whatever, and they'll listen to
you. These politicians want voters and we found
that's true not only on the local level but also on the
national level.
PLAY METER: There again , your force, back to
the state association. I'm sure they must monitor
legislation and sometimes prevent something from
happening.
LAWSON: That's right. We have a news service
12 months a year. Of course, our legislature meets
once a year, and they are normally in session for 90
days- though sometimes they're there forever it
seems like. We monitor everything that comes out
of there. We have our executive director, Bob
Rhinehart, who has been with us for a number of
years. He does a good job in getting us all the
information. And, of course, anytime there is
something that is detrimental to us, he immediately
shoots out a bulletin to us and advises us that we
should contact our senators and representatives or
whoever and talk with them.
PLAY METER: We have talked about licenses and
taxes. What about this copyright decision-the
eight-dollar royalty for all your jukeboxes? That's
going to be payable in January. How do you feel
about that?
LAWSON: Well, I think it's one of the most unfair
things I have ever heard. I do not think that there's
any reason for it whatsoever. And I doubt very
seriously if any of the artists will receive much of the
eight dollars. It's just another thing to dig into our
profits because there's no way we can pass it on
to anyone. We have to absorb it ourselves. Or if
there is a way, I haven't found it yet. It's going to
mean a lot of extra bookkeeping. It's going to mean
a lot of extra work for us, and that costs money. I
would like to say that I think the AMOA-and the
MOA before that- did a fantastic job of keeping
this from becoming a reality any sooner than it did.
I think they've done good to keep it down to eight
dollars. There was a time when they were asking
for something that was outrageous, and it would
have put a lot of us out of business. Of course, I'm
sure we'll overcome this. I'm sure we'll live with
whatever the rules and regulations are, though I
don't think anyone knows what they are yet.
PLAY METER: You are really big on associations,
aren't you?
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